Back to the Minutes for the 28 October 1997
From: ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: What C&C should be like Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:27:13 GMT I read the Elizabeth Ward's letter to the editor in Sixteen Bits. I agree with her that we need to discuss "what Coffee & Chat should be like". I cannot recall what was so different between the meeting of 30 September and previous/subsequent meetings. As it happens, I am one of those who believe that Coffee & Chat is about computer hobbyists and users chatting about computers and software in a social setting. I think that was the very idea that prompted Gloria Robbins and others (Ann Byrne ?) to start the group in a Canberra park few years back. I haven't been attending the meetings then, but I have attending meetings since late '94. It is only in recent times (since last year, I think) that a focus was given to 'problem solving'. To my mind, the meetings of C&C are not ideal for 'problem solving' other in the most superficial way. In my view, there is no way that any person - however knowledgeable - able to diagnose and offer solutions to verbal descriptions given by non-knowledgeable users. The variety of hardware configurations and software mix defy any useful answers, other than the most general and superficial kind. To "solve" computer problems meaningfully requires fronting the machine question and fiddling with the software and hardware. Any other way is pure guesswork and speculation, which invariably would not work on the machine in question even if the guesswork is in fact understood by the person who raised the problem at C&C. Ask any computer support person! PCUG has other opportunities for helping with "problem solving" - we have the internet clinic, we have training courses and we have occasional demos. I happen to think for those reasons that a primary focus of C&C on "problem solving' is misguided. Having said this, I hasten to add that C&C as a **social group** has invariably led to users helping users in problem solving in the practical sense that many a time fellow members kindly came to my home and helped me out with problems that I had, and many a time, I was at my fellow members' homes helping them with the problems that they had. I look forward to an opportunity at the next meeting of C&C on Tuesday 28 October to discuss the issue raised by Elizabeth in her published letter. Emil JosephBack to the top of the page
From: blchupin@pcug.org.au (Basil Chupin)
Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat
Subject: Re: What C&C should be like
ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) writes:
>I read the Elizabeth Ward's letter to the editor in Sixteen Bits.
>I agree with her that we need to discuss "what Coffee & Chat should
>be like".
[deleted]
>As it happens, I am one of those who believe that Coffee & Chat is
>about computer hobbyists and users chatting about computers and
>software in a social setting. I think that was the very idea that
>prompted Gloria Robbins and others (Ann Byrne ?) to start the
>group in a Canberra park few years back.
As far as I remember, Gloria Robins began the C & C back in late 1991 or early
1992 purely as a social event for "senior citizens" and they met in a
delightful and cosy room in the Lakeside Hotel.
While it was mainly a social gathering, information about computing was
exchanged because (?)all were members of the PCUG. I recall being invited to
attend their gathering as the Sysop and fended questions about the bulletin
board, modems, etc. To facilitate the exchange of information by this group of
people I created a (Fidonet) echomail area on the bulletin board for their use
at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------
Basil Chupin Internet: blchupin@pcug.org.au
Fidonet: 3.620.269.0 +61-6-285-2353
Canberra, A.C.T., Australia
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Back to the top of the pageFrom: jhume@pcug.org.au (James Hume) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: Re: What C&C should be like Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 22:22:35 GMT On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:27:13 GMT, ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) wrote: > > >I read the Elizabeth Ward's letter to the editor in Sixteen Bits. I >agree with her that we need to discuss "what Coffee & Chat should be >like". > >I cannot recall what was so different between the meeting of 30 >September and previous/subsequent meetings. > >As it happens, I am one of those who believe that Coffee & Chat is >about computer hobbyists and users chatting about computers and >software in a social setting. I think that was the very idea that >prompted Gloria Robbins and others (Ann Byrne ?) to start the group >in a Canberra park few years back. snip I agree with Emil. Essentially the subject matter is raised by members present,and the whole meeting tends to be unstructured. Attempts to define or structure the meetings have in the past led to unmitigated disaster. The real problem is I believe that the meetings are getting too large The Cordinators(Chairpersons) have in my view done a great job and the critiicisms are unjustified. JimBack to the top of the page
From: rcook@pcug.org.au (Owen Cook) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: Re: What C&C should be like Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:14:40 GMT ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) wrote: >I read the Elizabeth Ward's letter to the editor in Sixteen Bits. I >agree with her that we need to discuss "what Coffee & Chat should be >like". Below is Gloria Robbins original Charter for the group. As an attendee of C&C I find the meetings more or less go along what Gloria thought it would do. For me it's a good break away from the house...and all that house work :-)))))))))))))))) Besides the company is great too Qoute As the current coordinator of this new group, I would like to set down for the benefit of newcomers what we do and what I would like to see us do. We meet every second Tuesday at 10.30am for two hours at the PCUG club room and newcomers are made welcome, any business matters are discussed (this is a short segment as we are very informal) and then we generally have a short talk from one of the members or from an invited speaker. The topics vary from maintaining a printer in good condition to a member describing the genealogy program they use or someone reporting on the latest PCUG Monday night presentation. . After the talk and ensuing questions, the meeting is open for members'problems, solutions to problems and general discussion. There are about fifteen regular members and we often have over twenty people turn up for a cup or two of coffee, a chat with fellow members and to supply or receive help to or from other members. As most of us have some free time during the day, we are often able to visit other members' homes during the week and help people solve their problems 'on site'. Members have formed close associations with others who have similar computing interests. A wide range of computer knowledge exists within the group. Several members are part of the PCUG Volunteers scheme, helping with Internet, staffing the Centre at weekends, assisting on the Editorial committee and providing training courses. Newcomers to computing are always welcome and are offered help to set up their system if this is required. There are informal social events for members. We have the occasional lunch after a meeting, a Christmas party, and have just had a very successful picnic by the lake on a glorious autumn day. It has been proposed that our next social event should be a June lunch by an open fire at the George Harcourt Inn. I would like this Internet Coffee-Chat group to be a place where PCUG members who are not able to attend our meetings or functions can read what goes on at our meetings (summaries will be supplied to this group) and enter their own ideas/problems/solutions. Maybe they would like one or more of us to visit them. There are PCUG members not resident in Canberra - they might like to contribute articles and also might like a day visit from some of us. It's your group - what would you like to see in it? Gloria end of quote ****************************************************** Coffee & Chat Page, inluding archives of past meetings http://www.pcug.org.au/~rcook/c&c.htm ******************************************************Back to the top of the page
From: tfrew@pcug.org.au (Trevor Frew) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: Re: What C&C should be like Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:24:02 +1000 On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 23:14:40 GMT, rcook@pcug.org.au (Owen Cook) wrote: >ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) wrote: > >>I read the Elizabeth Ward's letter to the editor in Sixteen Bits. I >>agree with her that we need to discuss "what Coffee & Chat should be >>like". > >Below is Gloria Robbins original Charter for the group. As an >attendee of C&C I find the meetings more or less go along what >Gloria thought it would do. > >For me it's a good break away from the house...and all that house >work :-)))))))))))))))) Besides the company is great too > <chopt> An interesting philosophy and what a coffee and chat group should be, and is, all about. Keep up the good work everyone. BTW, I won't be attending the "Melbourne Cup" meeting but I hope all enjoy it. Regards, Trevor __________________________________________________________ Trevor Frew tfrew@pcug.org.au http://www.pcug.org.au/~tfrew ---Back to the top of the page
From: kenmed@pcug.org.au (Ken Meadows) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: Re: What C&C should be like Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 18:09:21 GMT On Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:27:13 GMT, ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) wrote: > > >I read the Elizabeth Ward's letter to the editor in Sixteen Bits. I >agree with her that we need to discuss "what Coffee & Chat should be >like". > >I cannot recall what was so different between the meeting of 30 >September and previous/subsequent meetings. > >As it happens, I am one of those who believe that Coffee & Chat is >about computer hobbyists and users chatting about computers and >software in a social setting. I think that was the very idea that >prompted Gloria Robbins and others (Ann Byrne ?) to start the group >in a Canberra park few years back. I haven't been attending the >meetings then, but I have attending meetings since late '94. It is >only in recent times (since last year, I think) that a focus was given >to 'problem solving'. > Much snipped. While not an original, I started attending Coffee and Chat in the early days when about 6 or 7 of us joined Gloria in Glebe Park - so long ago I forget when. Years on the numbers grew and at Bobby McGees we comfortably sat around the table in the make believe bush retreat. Those attending did not, in the main, have expertise in computers but we passed on our own experiences. I do not think we were absolute beginners and we did not primarily attend to learn about computers or to have our problems solved. It was a social occasion. There are classes to get you started in computers and a help directory for the tricky question. Bobby McGees, our third meeting place, was intimate, comfortable (apart from the sometimes intrusive music) and the numbers about right to keep it that way. Jim Hume is right in that the numbers are now too great. I do not know the answer and perhaps if the purpose and operation of the group were discussed a solution may emerge. See you all on Tuesday! Ken.Back to the top of the page
From: ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: Re: C & C - 28 October 1997 Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 11:05:37 GMT On Sat, 01 Nov 1997 08:54:17 GMT, nevander@pcug.org.au (Neville Anderson) wrote: > Peter asked if anyone present had installed IE4 and Jeff said >that he had done so, it had taken half an hour, reorganised >everything, and in his search for information on its operation, found >that a book was already on sale in the book store. Emil said that it >auto-connected to the ISP, and John added that this was not very good >with charged local calls, which do not exist in all other countries. I did not install IE4. I said that I had Netscape 4 (Communicator) and was happy with it, because it offered a way to choose which ISP configuration I wished to work with. From reading the article on IE4 in the Nov issue of Australian PC User Magazine, I gather there are certain default settings in IE4 that autoconnect with ISP. It seems that users of IE4 need to be aware of those defaults and - if appropriate - change them. But as I said I had/have no personal experience with IE4. Perhaps a user of IE4 could comment on IE4 in general and any auto-connect feature in particular. EmilBack to the top of the page
From: jeremyb@newshost.pcug.org.au (Jeremy Bishop) Newsgroups: tip.coffee-chat Subject: Re: C & C - 28 October 1997 Date: 2 Nov 1997 10:15:09 +1100 ejoseph@pcug.org.au (Emil Joseph) writes: >But as I said I had/have no personal experience with IE4. Perhaps a >user of IE4 could comment on IE4 in general and any auto-connect >feature in particular. I have to say that I am not a user of IE4 (nor am I a fan of any M$ products), but I did see this on the net (in rec.humor.funny) ... :-) :-) :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------- VIRUS WARNING!!! VIRUS WARNING!!! VIRUS WARNING!!! VIRUS WARNING!!! Dear Internet user, It seems that the destructive minds who like to invent computer viruses have struck again. A new virus, popularly known as INTERNET EXPLORER 4.0, has been propogating the Net for several weeks now. MILLIONS of computers have been infected by this insidious virus (mostly PCs, and a few Macintoshes as well.) This virus is one of the MOST DANGEROUS yet unleashed on the computing public! INTERNET EXPLORER 4.0 is known to have the following horrible effects on infected computers: * It WASTES an incredible amount of HARD DISK SPACE, space which could otherwise be used for productive applications * It causes the infected computer's performance to be DRASTICALLY REDUCED--Pentium machines which are stricken are known to slow down to the speed of a 486 * It surreptitiously MODIFIES the underlying operating system, causing the CORE FUNCTIONALITY of the instrument to change RADICALLY * It, through the use of Trojan-like ALTERATIONS to the core Java APIs, may cause Java applets to MALFUNCTION. These effects are so SEVERE that the designers of Java, Sun Microsystems, are taking LEGAL ACTION against the inventors of this terrible virus * It, once installed, is VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the average user to remove from the system * It is known to create SECURITY HOLES, which can allow unknown users to DELETE or DESTROY files on your hard drive * It is known to cause many popular and reliable Internet browsers, such as NETSCAPE NAVIGATOR and NETSCAPE COMMUNICATOR, to not function correctly * It is even known to infect NEWLY PURCHASED computers coming from repuatable manufacturers like COMPAQ and DELL. These companies have so far been POWERLESS to prevent this virus from being installed on the computers they sell. * It is known to be UNDETECTABLE by most virus-checking software packages The good news is that the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT is currently investigating the rogue hackers who CONCOCTED this destructive virus. They have been traced to a Seattle suburb, and may face fines of ONE MILLION DOLLARS PER DAY for the pernicious manner in which this virus is being distributed. The bad news is that millions of computers have ALREADY BEEN INFECTED. The inventors of this virus even have the gall to gleefully BOAST about this terrible fact on their web site! Here's what YOU can do: 1) If you see a website with the "Internet Explorer" logo, do **NOT** click on the logo. This can cause this virus to be DOWNLOADED and INSTALLED on your system! 2) If your computer is ALREADY INFECTED, and it's a Windows-based PC, call the technical support hotline at Microsoft (the company which wrote Windows), and ask them for instructions on how to DISABLE and REMOVE this virus. They should have instructions to do so. I apologize for the URGENT TONE of this message, but only if we WORK TOGETHER can the spread of the dreaded INTERNET EXPLORER 4.0 virus be slowed or stopped. -- Selected by Jim Griffith. MAIL your joke (jokes ONLY) to funny@clari.net. If you see a problem with an RHF posting, reply to the poster please, not to us. Ask the poster to forward comments back to us if this is necessary. For the full RHF guidelines, see http://comedy.clari.net/rhf/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Jeremy Bishop jeremyb@canb.auug.org.au Australian Unix User Group (AUUG) Canberra ChapterBack to the top of the page